MINUTES OF THE SIXTIETH LEGISLATION SUB-COMMITTEE MEETING
HELD AT THE TR REGISTER OFFICE, HAWKSWORTH, DIDCOT ON 10 JANUARY 2007Those present: David Hurley (in the chair); Jacqueline Bickerstaff; John Billard; David Davies; Sandy Hamilton; Rosy Pugh; Geoff Smith; Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: Andrew Burt and Peter Mead.
1. Minutes of the meeting of 8 November 2006
The minutes of the meeting of 23 August 2006, approved at the meeting of 8 November, were signed. The minutes of the meeting of 8 November were approved and were also signed.
2. Matters arising not included on the agenda
2.5.a European Report, Daytime Running Lights. The secretary confirmed that a response to the EC consultation on Day Time Running lights had been submitted. This paralleled FIVA’s response, and also urged that any decision on DRL should be left to member states.
3. UK Legislative Matters
A. Post consultation position reports:
a. Measures to enforce insurance “from the record” No consultation on implementing the continuous insurance provisions of the Road Safety Act (2007) had yet been published.
b. Improving access to public transport for the disabled No developments.
c. Transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (VOC) into UK law The consultation on implementing a licensing system for the supply of non-compliant products was now expected in February. JW
d. MoT testing for fire appliances No developments. DH
e. Testing requirements for new drivers of large vehicles This had become the subject of a further consultation - see item 3. B. a.
f. Operator Licensing consultation A DfT Press Release suggested that government was pressing ahead with plans to combine the differing “operator licensing” systems for passenger and goods vehicles and amalgamate the collection of fees with charges for vehicle testing, thus unfairly penalising those with vehicles that required testing but did not require operator licences. This matter had been put on the agenda for the next All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group meeting. DH
g. proposed changes to the on-road and off-road motor event regulations No further news. JW
h. DVLA consultation on fee proposals Sandy Hamilton said he had been told that a decision on the future means of funding DVLA operations had been taken in principle and was now awaiting Treasury approval. It was understood that this would not involve an annual registration charge.
j. DVLA consultation on registration transfers No further news.
k. MoT fee consultation David Hurley commented that he had not forgotten his commitment to seek further information about the survey that had been used to justify a 14% increase in MoT fees. DH
l. Consultation on interoperability of electronic toll collection systems No further news.
m. Consultation on licensing for in-vehicle information systems David Hurley reported on the response he had submitted: he had emphasised the need for government to retain control over satellite navigation systems to prevent them becoming dangerously distracting and to ensure the underlying mapping information was adequate.
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3. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
B. Current consultations
a. DSA service improvements, safety related measures and general fee increases (11/1/07) David Hurley said he would submit a response to this consultation highlighting the impact some of the proposals would have on new drivers of historic vehicles seeking to obtain appropriate heavy vehicle licences who would have to undertake training and learn the basic modules required for Certificates of Professional Competence (CPC) which they would never actually need. He had taken the opportunity to re-iterate FBHVC’s call for a “restricted” grade of licence as highlighted in the response to the earlier consultation on the subject of qualification for CPC. DH
b. VOSA fees and minor changes to MoT testing (12/1/07) David Hurley commented that this consultation was not really relevant to FBHVC, but he had responded noting the proposed fee increase for commercial testing was at a more reasonable level than the recent 14½% increase for smaller vehicles. He had also highlighted the existence of back illuminated registration numbers.
c. Legislative changes to comply with European regulations on drivers’ hours (17/1/07) David Hurley explained that new European regulations on the permitted working hours of professional heavy vehicle drivers meant that the government had to change existing UK legislation. The EU regulations included an exemption from the regulations for historic vehicles as defined by member states, but they removed the current UK exemption for private non commercially operated goods vehicles over 7500kg maximum authorised mass.
The government consultation proposed to take advantage of the historic vehicle exemption, but had chosen to link the definition to a piece of hasty (and flawed) legislation dating from 1988 which was designed to exempt large historic passenger vehicles from the then new tachograph regulations but which had restricted the use of such vehicles to attendance at shows, and travel for testing or maintenance. David went on to say that he was planning a response pointing out the flawed nature of the 1988 Statutory Instrument and requesting a simple non-restrictive definition based on a rolling date. This was agreed. DH, JBld, JW
John Billard commented that the removal of the exemption from drivers’ hours regulations for large private commercials would be a blow to National Traction Engine Trust members (in particular) because many engines were transported to events by such vehicles. The matter had been discussed by NTET and it had, reluctantly, been decided not to seek special treatment.d. Other consultations - Low Emission Zone for London (2/02/07) Transport for London had consulted on the text of the regulations that would underpin the proposed new Low Emission Zone for London. The proposal to exclude historic vehicles had been carried through, but instead of a rolling 25 year date as had originally been proposed, the draft regulations showed a fixed pre-1973 date. David Hurley said he had had meetings with TfL officials and would be drafting a strong response urging a return to the original proposal. DH
Waste handling (6/03/07) The secretary said he had received a consultation from DEFRA on the handling and transportation of waste. He said it was unlikely to be relevant to FBHVC, but he would check. JW
No other new consultations had been received at the time of the meeting.
C. Other Matters
a. Occasional sales It was felt that the long threatened consultation on the possible extension of the Kent Act was unlikely to materialise in the near future and it was agreed to drop this item from the routine agenda.
b. Highways Agency and police action re. old vehicles on M6 and A69 There had been no response from clubs on this issue. It was agreed to take no further action.
c. Other Just as the December Newsletter was going to press, a magazine article had been published suggesting that imperial units would be banned by 2010, with obvious consequences for the maintenance of old machines and vehicles that had been made to imperial dimensions. This was at first thought to be a scare story, but subsequent research showed it to be true to the extent that the derogation allowing the use of dual displays showing “supplementary units” would come to an end in 2010, making it illegal to labels goods with imperial units. The matter had been included on the agenda for the next meeting of the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group.
In researching the subject, the secretary said he had come across the British Weights and Measures Association (annual subscription £12) which was seeking to have a new and permanent derogation that would allow the continued use of imperial units indefinitely. It was agreed FBHVC should subscribe. JW
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4. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group
An outline agenda and briefing paper had been submitted covering the following topics: research reports; culture and heritage links; the needs for a return to a rolling date for VED exemption; drivers’ hours regulations; metrication; the problems associated with the proposals for modernizing operator licensing; and a request for support for the Northern Ireland Parades Commissioner’s recommendation that events for historic vehicles should be taken out of the remit of the commission.
It was expected a meeting would be arranged towards the end of January or early in February. [It is now known the meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, 7 February.]
5. European Report
There was nothing arising from recent EU reports from EPPA, although it was noted that the report for December 2006 had not yet come to hand.
A meeting of the FIVA Legislation Commission would be taking place in February: David Davies presented a paper that he had discussed with Andrew Burt listing 14 potential topics for discussion with which the meeting agreed. It was noted that efforts to make links to heritage interests appeared to have stalled, as had plans to set up a link into the United Nations. It was hoped that the February meeting would address these issues and move matters forward. AB; DD
6. DVLA
Sandy Hamilton reported on a liaison meeting that had taken place at Swansea on 21 November to which Nigel Harrison, his understudy, had been invited. DVLA had realised that some drivers had lost motor cycle entitlement when renewing their licences at 70. This problem had affected a few thousand applicants and DVLA was trawling its records to put matters right. The results of the consultation on fees were still awaited, but it had been hinted that FBHVC would not be displeased. On the other hand, DVLA had confirmed that it would not be possible for owners to seek non-transferability of registration numbers. There was now a team dedicated to V765 work, which should improve consistency of approach. It was understood that inspections would be required in all cases where applications were made to transfer numbers of vehicles over 15 years old. DVLA was taking a pragmatic approach to cases where the new computerised MoT highlighted discrepancies between records and numbers actually appearing on vehicles. Specific cases had been discussed, largely with satisfactory results.
It was agreed that Nigel Harrison should be invited to attend a future meeting. SH
7. Other business
The secretary said that FBHVC was frequently being requested for its “position” on government plans for road pricing following the publication of the Eddington report: he said his standard response was that the government had yet to determine how such a system would work, that preliminary trials were not expected until about 2010, and that FBHVC was unlikely to take a position until clear proposals had been published, although it would probably oppose any system where the cost of a journey could not be assessed in advance. The meeting agreed that this view was correct.
Geoff Smith distributed a paper outlining further information that could be extracted from the forms that had been collected in the process of the 2005/6 survey. This mainly related to vehicle ownership patterns amongst individuals and skill shortages in the trade. This material could only be analysed manually, and so would be relatively expensive to process. The estimated cost for doing this work, including the cost of designing and printing a report, was £11,800 and it was expected to take three months.
The meeting agreed this additional work should go ahead. JW
8. January/February Newsletter
The contents of the next newsletter were discussed and the closing date, the Monday following the meeting, noted.
……………………………………………… Chairman Jim Whyman,
Secretary.
Next meetings: All Wednesdays at TR Register HQ -
21 February; 25 April; 27 June; 22 August; 31 October; 9 January 08; 27 February 08