14 JANUARY 2006
Those present: David Hurley (chairman), Jacqueline Bickerstaff, Andrew Burt, David Davies, Sandy Hamilton, Peter Mead, Rosy Pugh, Geoff Smith, Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: Peter Henley and Matt Vincent.
1. Minutes of the meeting of 1 November 2005The minutes of the meeting of 1 November 2005 were signed as accurate.
2. Matters arising
None.
3. UK Legislative Matters
A. Position reports:
a. Measures to enforce insurance “from the record” The secretary said the relevant section of the Road Safety Bill had been re-drafted and appeared to give keepers of vehicles that were not subject to the SORN requirements (because they have been off the road since before 1998) protection from the penalties that would be applied to anyone keeping a vehicle that was neither under a SORN declaration nor insured. JW
b. Improving access to public transport for the disabled David Hurley said he had approached charities serving the disabled community to discuss the problems that a blanket requirement for disabled access would cause for operators of “heritage” services. He had also had further discussions with staff at the Department for Transport. He felt that if he could get agreement from leading disabled groups that they did not expect general wheelchair access for historic vehicles being used for such services, DfT would be more readily inclined to accept his arguments. DH
c. Transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (VOC) into UK law The secretary reported a brief exchange of e-mails with Ian Oldfield at DEFRA that indicated that DEFRA was working on implementing the derogation for the continued supply of non-compliant paint for the proper restoration of historic vehicles. JW
d. MoT testing for fire engines David Hurley said he had had further discussions with civil servants responsible for drafting the proposed regulations requiring fire engines to undergo testing. He was contemplating writing direct to Stephen Ladyman, the minister responsible, to highlight the difficulties caused by the amendment to paragraph 8 of the schedule of classes of vehicles to which the Plating and Testing regulations do not apply that limits exemption for fire appliances to “Vehicles designed and used solely” for fire fighting purposes. Problems included the lack of a suitable testing regime for such vehicles and the limitations that a strict interpretation of “solely” might impose on fire services. DH
e. Waste framework directive No further news.
f. Compulsory seat belt requirements for children No further news.
B. Other Matters
a. Violent Crime Reduction Bill The secretary confirmed that the relevant section of this bill had been re-drafted to take de-activated weapons out of the scope of the proposed legislation. The military vehicle camp had been pleased, although still concerned that problems might arise for those using replica (as opposed to de-activated) weapons, depending on how government drafts the relevant regulations. JW
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3. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
b. Insurance concerns in respect of MSA cover for events The secretary reported on recent correspondence with John Symes at MSA in which John effectively admitted that MSA had a problem with provision of insurance cover for competition vehicles at events. It was agreed that the secretary should seek a meeting with John to discuss this issue prior to the 21 March committee meeting. JW
c. Occasional sales The secretary said the Private Members Bill on regulating occasional sales had run out of time, so would not be proceeding. Before doing so, however, the bill’s sponsor had accepted an amendment tabled by Greg Knight that would have removed autojumbles from the scope of the bill. Some organs of the press had taken this to mean that government had dropped the idea of extending the Kent Act, but the Home Office had confirmed in November that they would be consulting, although there was still no sign of this happening. JW
d. Other matters The secretary said he would be investigating claims that it was illegal to supply glass for forward facing screens that was less than 6.5mm thick – the owner of a pre-war Rolls Royce had complained that he was facing having to replace not just the screen of his car, but also the framework in which it was mounted as the original laminated glass was only 5.4mm thick. JW
The secretary reported that he had been approached by the Association of Old Vehicle Clubs in Northern Ireland for support in trying to overturn rules that require those planning old vehicle runs in the province to apply to the Parades Commission for approval. Apparently, this requirement had always been in place since the Parades Commission was introduced, but the police had only recently begun to enforce the rules for events other than marches. The secretary said he had asked the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group to consider the matter and support AOVCNI’s approach to government which was being made through NI MPs. JW
David Hurley reported on a consultation document found on the Department for Transport website under the “freight logistics” section. Entitled “Modernising Operator Licensing – a streamlined regulatory system for operators of goods and public service vehicles”. The consultation gave an overview of the current arrangements, where there are significant differences between the treatment of goods vehicles and passenger vehicles, and outlined proposals to rationalise the system. Amongst these was a suggestion that the cost of administering the system should be recovered from increases in the fees for annual testing - which would more than double as a result. This would clearly disadvantage owners of those preserved historic commercial vehicles that are subject to testing as they fall outside the operator licensing requirements, but may nonetheless have to pay the enhanced fee. David said he would be studying the document in greater detail before submitting an appropriate response prior to the 31 March consultation closure date. DH
The secretary reported on correspondence he had had with his own MP on the subject of measures proposed in the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill to prevent any future claims to have tracks in the countryside designated as Byways Open to All Traffic (BOATS). The proposals went against understandings reached in the wake of the 2004 consultation on the use of mechanically propelled vehicles in the countryside. It was clear from the MPs response that Parliament was strongly in favour of the strictest possible limitation on the use of motorised vehicles off the main highways network. It was agreed this should be discussed at the next APPHVG meeting. JW
4. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle GroupGeoff Smith said a meeting would be due in February. It was agreed that the agenda should include:
Operator licensing; effects of the disability discrimination act; the problems faced by old vehicle clubs in Northern Ireland as a result of application of the Parades Commission regulations; the unfairness of the measures in the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill; and the importance of the historic vehicle movement ot national heritage.5. European Report
David Davies commented that there was nothing of consequence to report: environmental matters remain dominant, as reported in the recent Updates produced by EPPA.
There would be a meeting of the legislation team in Vienna shortly.
Geoff Smith gave a brief resume of progress with the FIVA Cultural and Economic Survey that was beginning to come to fruition. The UK element was now virtually complete with returns from just under 20,000 individuals and a first class response from the trade.…/3
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6. DVLA
Sandy Hamilton said the publication in September 2005 of a report into the findings of a 2004 consultation on vehicle inspection procedures had triggered a wave of ill-informed comment in some organs of the historic vehicle press. He had done his best to correct the more serious errors. There was still no news on the outcome of the fee consultation from 2004. DVLA systems were undergoing a massive overhaul which included changing the main frame computer and integrating systems with the DVLNI. It was thus unlikely that the changes required to correct errors on recording previous owner details on V5C documents would occur for about two years.
Alistair Darling has recently announced that a system for electronic licence renewal had opened up that could be used by those whose MoT’s had been issued by a computerised testing station (or that were new enough not to require testing).
7. Implementation of measures in Vision 2005-10
Web site monitoring had been happening in a somewhat desultory way, but reporting levels were still weak. Peter Mead said he had been unable to take more than a cursory look at the DEFRA web site as he found it impossible to read off screen, and the site was so large that it was impossible to print it. Rosy Pugh agreed to take on monitoring the DEFRA site. RP
David Hurley said he had spoken to John Billard who had shown an interest in serving on the legislation committee. It was agreed he should be invited to do so. David went on to remind everyone of the importance of appointing a deputy-cum-understudy and asked all present to consider whether or not they would consider taking on that role. It was agreed this subject should be on the agenda again for the next meeting. All
8. Other matters
None.
9. January/February Newsletter
The outline contents of the newsletter (which had “closed” during the previous week) were discussed. Rosy Pugh stressed the importance of sticking to the schedule.
……………………………………………… Chairman Jim Whyman, Secretary.