27 APRIL 2005
Those present: David Hurley (chairman), Andrew Burt, Sandy Hamilton, Rosy Pugh, Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: Jacqueline Bickerstaff, David Davies, Peter Henley, Peter Mead, Geoff Smith, and Matt Vincent.
1. Minutes of the meeting of 12 January 2005After the word “load” on the third line of item 2.4.d of the minutes of the meeting of 12 January had been changed to “vehicle”, the minutes were signed as an accurate record of that meeting.
2. Matters arising not covered below
It was noted that the meeting scheduled for 23 February had been cancelled due to snow in central and eastern England. David Hurley, Geoff Smith and the secretary had met informally at Chieveley to discuss urgent issues. There were no matters arising from either the 12 January meeting or the informal meeting that would not be covered during the course of the agenda.
3. Fuel Topics
a) Additive testing David Hurley reported that the final tests of approved additives had been completed and the results were satisfactory. It was agreed a note should be included in the newsletter. DH
b) Other matters None.
4. UK Legislative Matters
a) Review of number plate security measures The secretary said that he had submitted a generally supportive response, but had taken the opportunity to raise the problem of not being able to obtain replacement plates in the original font for 1973 to 2001 vehicles. He had also raised this with David Jamieson, the minister responsible, who had been less than encouraging. He said he would raise the issue again with the appropriate person post-election. Sandy Hamilton suggested that it would be worth seeking the support of the Association of Chief Police Officers – this was agreed. JW
b) Consultation on proposals to enforce insurance “from the record” The text of the response to the consultation had been agreed at the informal meeting at Chieveley. Again, it had been broadly supportive of government efforts to combat the scourge of uninsured driving, but with some provisos about situations where it would be quite reasonable to be the keeper of a vehicle that was taxed but not insured. There had been no feedback.
c) Consultation on improving access to public transport for the disabled David Hurley outlined the FBHVC response requesting exemptions from disability access requirements for operators using historic vehicles for tourist services. Such requirements would have the inevitable result that such services would disappear as it would generally be impossible to modify historic vehicles appropriately, and even if it was possible, owners would be unwilling to do so. David commented that he understood the response had received a sympathetic hearing.
d) Change in HM Customs & Excise guidelines over “collectors” vehicles The secretary said that HM Customs and Excise had recently tightened up the guidelines under which they allow the importation of so-called collectors’ vehicles at a significantly reduced rate of VAT. The stricter regime stipulated that vehicles must be very rare or have some special history or be associated with a famous individual. This meant, for example, that an XK 120 Jaguar that would previously have been considered as a collectors’ item, would no longer be so considered unless it had some special history because the model was mass produced. The meeting discussed whether or not it was appropriate to make representations to HM C & E to revert to the previous regime.
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- 2 -4. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
The secretary said he suspected that the tightening up was due to UK having become the gateway to Europe for dealers bringing vehicles in from other parts of the world because of its low tariff. The meeting agreed that it was not appropriate for FBHVC to seek special treatment.
d2) Response to consultation on the implementation of the waste framework directive The secretary said he had been unable to find anything in the consultation that would require a farmer to dispose of obsolete machinery provided he was keeping it in an environmentally sound manner. The secretary had responded to the consultation urging that no measure should be put in place that would interfere with a farmer’s right to keep dis-used equipment if he so wished.
e) Probable extension of the Kent Act nationwide There had been no feedback whatsoever from the piece in the recent newsletter asking readers to report problems encountered as a result of the Kent Act. The secretary said he would repeat the request in the next issue. JW
f) Consultation on transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (on Volatile Organic Compounds) into UK law
The secretary said that – as far as FBHVC was concerned – this daunting 70 plus page document boiled down to just one page with the question “should UK give effect to the Derogation allowing member states to allow the continued use of non-compliant products for the proper restoration and maintenance of historic vehicles”. There was no suggestion as to how this should be implemented and the consultation sought suggestions from interested parties.
The secretary said he had discussed the matter with John Falder, MD of HMG Paints, and with Hugh Williams, Technical Manager of the British Coatings Federation and had drafted a paper outlining possibilities that he had shared with both organisations. He was awaiting feed back before drafting a response to the consultation. JWg) Consultation on amendment to PSV regs to allow vertical exhaust for steam driven buses David Hurley explained that DfT had proposed a simple amendment to the Public Service Vehicle (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) Regulations to allow a front mounted vertical chimney in the case of steam-powered buses made prior to 1955. He said he would be replying in support of the proposal and would take the opportunity to highlight the problems that would arise if there was no exemption for such vehicles within the regulations being considered under the Disability Discrimination Act.
h) Driving Standards Agency consultation on test fees and developmental training for qualified motorcyclists
The meeting noted that it was proposed to increase the cost of some test fees by more than the rate of inflation, and it was felt that this should not go through without at least a word of protest. JW
It was agreed that David Hurley would ask David Davies and Jacqueline Bickerstaff to check the driver training consultation for potential problems for rides of older motorcycles. DHi) Clean Neighbourhoods The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act was one of the last to be passed by parliament before the election was called. So-called “nuisance parking” is at the top of the list for action, and DEFRA had included FBHVC in an urgent consultation on draft guidelines to assist local authority staff who have to deal with such problems. The new act makes it an offence to use the public highway for the business of carrying out repairs to vehicles or for the purpose of buying and selling motor vehicles by way of trade. The guidelines are well worded and it is clear the regulations are aimed at those who make a business of repairing/buying/selling vehicles on the road, with provisions to allow for breakdown/accident repairs. It was agreed the FBHVC response should support the guidelines, but highlight the position of those who have no off-road parking and who employ mobile mechanics to maintain their vehicles. JW
j) Problems caused by DEFRA guidelines for the Single Payment Scheme for agricultural subsidy
Guidance notes issued by the Department for the Environment Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) on 29 March described the types of non-agricultural activities allowed during the ten month qualifying period for the new Single Payment Scheme to farmers. Some activities, such as birdwatching, are allowed without restriction, other more intrusive activities are permitted on an occasional basis while activities that remove the land from agricultural use for a significant period, such as use as a golf course, are precluded. All motor sport has been included in the banned category, even though the vast majority of motor sporting events are transient. Since the new scheme is based on maintaining land in a condition suitable for agriculture, this approach seemed illogical and the secretary applied to DEFRA for clarification. No answer had been received by the time of the meeting. It was agreed that, although this issue was primarily a matter for the Motor Sports Association and the Auto Cycle Union, FBHVC would continue to press for the guidelines to be amended in favour of allowing motor sport events that do not require the land to be taken out of use for agriculture for more than a few days. JW
[Note: on 13 May, Lord Bach the new minister at DEFRA announced a change to the guidelines to allow motor sport on SPS land on up to 28 days in a qualifying period. Battle won.]
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- 3 -5. Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Club
The secretary said he would make contact with Greg Knight (who was felt to have a safe seat) immediately after the election to start planning for future meetings. JW
6. European Report
a) Proposals to limit Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH) in tyres Andrew Turner of EPPA had reported that an amendment to the draft directive had been agreed that would allow an extra three years before the regulations would apply to tyres for historic vehicles. This amendment had been requested by Good Year, and supported by FIVA.
b) Drivers Code No discussion.
c) Other Matters David Hurley expressed concern at the provisions contained within Directive 2003/59/EC that will apparently require those wishing to become bus and lorry drivers to undertake 280 hours training. These provisions had not yet been translated into UK law, and it was agreed that it was important to oppose the implementation of any such measures (unless it was already too late). DH
7. DVLA
Sandy Hamilton said there had been a routine liaison meeting in March that he had reported to the main committee.
He described the need for those aged over 70 wishing to renew their driving licences to ensure that they applied using the correct form to ensure their existing entitlements were carried forward to their new licences. He said he would write an appropriate piece for the news letter. SH
He said he was helping DVLA with a case where a car owner had apparently faked a club letter head to provide himself with a dating letter in order to get historic vehicle status on a late 1970s car, and that he was about to review a file of papers on one of the two Mini-Cooper S cars that had been claiming the number RJB 327 F8. Other matters
David Hurley reported on a recent meeting of FIVA representatives in Brussels which he, Geoff Smith and David Davies had attended. He reported it as being a well-worthwhile exercise and it was clear that there was immense support for the work FIVA was doing in monitoring legislation.
9. May/June Newsletter
No discussion, other than to confirm that the report of the final fuel additive test should be included and the item about licence application for the over 70s. DH; SH
………………………………………………Chairman Jim Whyman,Secretary.