23 AUGUST 2006
Those present: David Hurley (in the chair); Jacqueline Bickerstaff; John Billard; Andrew Burt; David Davies; Sandy Hamilton; Rosy Pugh; Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: Peter Henley; Peter Mead; Geoff Smith and Matt Vincent.
1. Minutes of the meeting of 28 June 2006The minutes of the meeting of 28 June were signed as accurate.
2. Matters arising not included on the agenda
8 Testing standards for buses with no front brakes
David Hurley said he had spoken to VOSA about the lack of any concession in braking standards for those early buses that lacked front wheeled brakes. It transpired that the concession existed in law (allowing a reduced efficiency of 30% on the service brake), but had been dropped accidentally from the table in the Class V testing manual at some stage in 1990s. VOSA would be circulating relevant testing stations with an informal memo to ensure that any such buses that may be presented for test are not unfairly penalised.3. UK Legislative Matters
A. Post consultation position reports:
a. Measures to enforce insurance “from the record” An article had appeared in the Insurance Times at the end of June claiming that new regulations contained in the Road Safety Bill would mean that ALL registered vehicles would have to be kept insured at all times. This had caused a flurry of activity as other organs of the press copied the story. The secretary said he had obtained a letter from Dr Ladyman, the Minister at DfT making it clear that regulations would be worded so that there would be no requirement for SORNed vehicles, or vehicles that had been off the road since before the introduction of the SORN regulations, to be insured. This had been reported in the newsletter. It remained to ensure that future regulations did as promised.
b. Improving access to public transport for the disabled Greg Knight had repeated the question on this subject to the new minister responsible and had received a response that was helpful in part, chiefly in providing a contact and telephone number for an official dealing with the matter. DDA legislation pertaining to railways had originally allowed the granting of exemption orders on a case by case basis, but now permitted ministers to exempt complete networks. The aim should be for the same situation for historic vehicles. DH
c. Transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (VOC) into UK law The secretary said that DEFRA had been in touch again to confirm that they would be consulting on regulations to allow the sale under licence of non-compliant products. The consultation was unlikely to take place before autumn, and regulations would thus probably not be in place before the general ban on sales comes into force in January 2007.
d. MoT testing for fire appliances
David Hurley said he was still in correspondence with VOSA and DfT over the testing of fire engines for reasons detailed at the last meeting. Greg Knight had raised the matter with the minister. It seemed there was a reluctance to accept there was a problem. DHe. Waste framework directive No further news.
f. Compulsory seat belt requirements for children A Statutory Instrument amending previous regulations to bring them in to line with the recentEU directive was published on 13 July, and appeared to do exactly what had been published in the June newsletter. Ended
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3. UK Legislative Matters A. Post consultation position reports (contd)
g. Testing requirements for new drivers of large vehicles No further news.
h. Operator Licensing consultation No further news.
j. release of vehicle data from the record Sandy Hamilton reported that the DfT website was showing new rules for the release of data from the DVLA records which had been announced in July. These appeared to follow the suggestions that had been included in the consultation published in February and included a stricter code of practice together with measures for monitoring and auditing. Ended
k. low emission zone proposals for London No further news.
l. Highway Code No further news.
m. implementing EU Directive on sulphur free fuel Ended
n. proposed changes to the on-road and off-road motor event regulations No further news.
p. revisions to MoT Testing Guide, 6th Edition This was considered outside FBHVC’s remit. Ended
q. revisions to MoT Inspection Manual – testing of number plates A response had been sent as discussed at the previous meeting.
r. DVLA consultation on fee proposals A draft response objecting to the principle of administration fees had been circulated as discussed at the last meeting and sent after detail amendment.
B. Current consultations
a. DVLA consultation on registration transfers (10/10) Sandy Hamilton said he had yet to prepare a draft, but would do so shortly and circulate it for comment. David Hurley said he would like to see two things included: a suggestion that there should be mandatory inspections when it was proposed to transfer a registration number off a pre-1973 vehicle to counter the risk of identity theft from old vehicles and a request that owners should be able to have their numbers rendered permanently non-transferable. SH
b MoT fee consultation (1/9) David Hurley said he had started work on a draft response objecting to the proposal to increase fees across the board by 14% on the basis of a limited survey of test times for cars. He would also be objecting both to the short consultation period and the short time allowed between the close of the consultation and the implementation of the measures proposed: this effectively meant that the Department for Transport would have no time to act on any comments stemming from the consultation. He would, on the other hand, applaud DfT for easing the costs of retests. He said he would send a draft to Andrew Burt, Sandy Hamilton & the Secretary. DH
c. any other new consultation David Hurley said he had picked up a potential difficulty for the future from a consultation on regulations concerning end of series commercial vehicles that had originally been set aside as of no concern of FBHVC. The regulations affected only new vehicles and had no retrospective elements, but emergency and military vehicles were being exempted from torque limiting equipment that was required for other vehicles to limit emissions. He was concerned about the status of such vehicles in respect of testing once they were no longer in use for military or emergency purposes. He said he was in discussion with the civil servants responsible for the now closed consultation. DH
David Davies reported a 70 page Health and Safety Executive consultation on the implementation of EU Directive 2006/15 concerning work exposure limits for those working with a list of some 30 chemical solvents. There was concern that this might cause problems for those mixing eccentric fuels for old vehicles. The secretary agreed to contact the Veteran Car Club and the Vintage Sports Car Club with a list of the chemicals concerned. The closing date for the consultation was 27 September. JW
C. Other Matters
a. occasional sales No further news.
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- 3 -3. UK Legislative Matters C. Other Matters (contd)
b. use of red diesel/TVO in tractors No further news. [Subsequent to the meeting, HM Revenue and Customs have issued an open general licence to members of FBHVC subscriber clubs allowing them to mix rebated kerosene with other non re-bated fuels in the tanks of pre-1960 tractors. The licence is not available for use by those who are not members of subscriber clubs. The use of red diesel is not permitted for this purpose, and red diesel remains limited for use in genuine agricultural operations.]
c. Highways Agency & Police action on M6 & A69 David Hurley read a letter detailing two instances in the north where Highways Agency officials and police had stopped buses that were travelling on major routes. In one instance, the driver had been accused of causing congestion. This appeared to be the imposition of a minimum speed limit by default and it was agreed that FBHVC should follow up the cases which highlighted the problems caused by a lack of alternative routes coupled with poor sign-posting. DH
d. other matters None.
4. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group
There had been some feedback from the last meeting (as reported earlier), but nothing about a meeting aimed at forging links with the heritage and culture department.
5. European Report
a. Daytime Running Lights It was noted that the EC consultation on Daytime Running Lights recognised the need for special treatment for older vehicles. The meeting considered that the most important element of any DRL regulations was that there should be uniformity of application across the EU. EPPA would be responding on behalf of FIVA, but it was felt important both to provide EPPA with FBHVC’s views on the consultation and to submit a parallel national response direct to EC. It was agreed the secretary should liaise with Andrew Turner, prepare a draft response and circulate it to all legislation committee members during September.
b. Representation of FIVA legislation commission Andrew Burt explained that FIVA’s legislation commission was keen to improve links with National Federations and was seeking to appoint a person from each National Federation (and a deputy) to be the bridge between the two organisations to improve the flow of information. The core group (on which he served) was up to strength and working well. David Davies was also serving in his capacity as FIVA’s communications officer. Andrew suggested that David Hurley should be the first point of contact between the FIVA legislation team and FBHVC, with John Billard acting as his deputy. This was agreed and the secretary said he would inform the FIVA General Secretary. JW
c. Other matters The secretary said he had prepared a mock up of how the FIVA Drivers Code might be published in UK by FBHVC. He said he had acted because he was aware that FIVA had a commitment to publish and had used the existence of the code in the response to the recent UK Highway Code consultation. Consequently, he felt it important that FBHVC should publish if only to lend credence to the remarks made in that response. The meeting agreed that FBHVC should publish the code as soon as possible and make PDF files available to FIVA (at a cost). David Hurley said he wished to read the draft again before agreeing to its publication. The secretary asked for comments by the Beaulieu committee meeting. All
6. DVLA
Sandy Hamilton reported that recent DVLA press releases had highlighted the success of the NCP contract to identify untaxed vehicles and remove them from the streets. He mentioned that there were concerns in some quarters about the need for drivers of larger motor homes to hold vocational licences. He had approached DVLA seeking a date for a routine liaison meeting in early autumn.
7. Other business
Due to a combination of factors, it was agreed to move the next meeting from 25 October to 8 November. RP
8. September/October Newsletter
The deadline for the next newsletter was Wednesday 13 September.
……………………………………………… Chairman Jim Whyman, Secretary.