MINUTES OF THE SIXTY FOURTH LEGISLATION SUB-COMMITTEE MEETING
HELD AT THE TR REGISTER OFFICE, HAWKSWORTH, DIDCOT ON 31 OCTOBER 2007Those present: John Billard (in the chair); Andrew Burt; Chris Hunt Cooke; Rosy Pugh; Geoff Smith; Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: David Hurley; Jacqueline Bickerstaff; David Davies; Sandy Hamilton; Eri Heilijgers
1. Minutes of the meeting of 22 August 2007
The minutes of the meeting of 22 August were approved and signed.
2. Matters arising not included on the agenda
3.C.d. The secretary reported that the correspondence with National Car Parks concerning the clamping of a SORNed car on private land had shown that NCP had acted correctly, and had actually given the owner of the car the benefit of the doubt as it appeared that one pair of wheels had been on the edge of the highway. More troubling, though, was the suggestion in one of the letters from NCP that new legislation might make it possible to clamp un-taxed vehicles on private ground. The secretary said Greg Knight had been kept informed. It was agreed this was a topic for the next meeting of the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group.
3. Matters from EGM/AGM
It was agreed that discussion on the list of names to fill roles required by the new Bylaws should be postponed until David Hurley was able to be present.
4. UK Legislative Matters
A. Post consultation position reports:
a. Measures to enforce insurance “from the record” No developments.
b. Improving access to public transport for the disabled No developments.
c. Transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (VOC) into UK law See 4. B. c., below.
d. Low Emission Zone for London - draft “scheme order” The order was now in place. The only future development likely would be for FBHVC to seek a review of the fixed cut off date for the historic vehicle exemption once the LEZ was underway.
e. Regulation of Number Plate Supply in UK The secretary reported that the response to the consultation had been sent as discussed at the previous meeting. A copy had been sent to Greg Knight with a note seeking his support for the request to remove the anomaly in respect of the ban on like-for-like replacement plates for vehicles of made from 1973 to September 2001. There had, as yet, been no feedback and it was agreed this should be another topic for APPHVG.
f. London Emission Related Congestion Charging proposal FBHVC’s response to this proposal had pointed out the discrepancy between the published statement that the penal higher charge would apply to all cars over 3-litres entering the congestion zone and the wording of the regulations that stated the higher charge applied only to vehicles over this capacity that had been type approved. The response had gone on to argue that historic vehicles should be treated at the lower rate, whatever their capacity, and urged that this should be made clear in the regulations. It was too soon after submission to have received any response or comment.
g. Driver Certificate of Professional Competence - Further Implementation The consultation closed on the day of the meeting and it was understood that David Hurley had submitted a response raising the issues mentioned at the 22 August meeting.
- 2 -4. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
B. Current consultations (closing date day/month)
a. consultation on EC proposal to amend the fuel quality directive 98/70/EC (22/11) It was understood this was a consultation aimed at encouraging bio-fuels. It did not appear to affect normal fuel supplies and this had no direct impact on the use of historic vehicles so no response would be sent. It was agreed to drop this item from the agenda for future meetings.
b. consultation on implementation of directive 2003/20/EC on the use of seat belts and child restraints on buses and coaches (30/11) This appeared to relate only to the use of restraints provided. There was no proposal to change the requirements for fitting belts to existing coaches and buses, and the consultation was thus felt to be outside FBHVC’s remit. David Hurley was, however, still studying the detail to be sure. It was agreed to drop this item from the agenda for future meetings unless anything of concern was found. DH
c. consultation of licensing scheme for the sale and purchase of non-compliant paints for use on historic buildings and vintage vehicles (12/12) The secretary commented that DEFRA had been exceptionally helpful in keeping the proposed definition of vehicles which would qualify for the supply of non-compliant product simple. They had chosen to make anything over 30 years old eligible. They also proposed to make it simple for restorers to obtain bulk supply licences without specifying the detail of the vehicles to which the paint would be applied until after the event. The big concern was with the potential cost of the licence: it was proposed that local authorities should issue the licences and, crucially, police compliance. The costs of issuing the licences and of enforcing compliance would have to be incorporated in the licence fee. This could lead to a sort of post-code lottery where some councils might charge a minimal fee on the basis that they plan low key enforcement, while other may take the opposite view, leading to very high charges. It was agreed that FBHVC’s response should highlight this potential difficulty. JW
The secretary added that he had been speaking to the chairman of the vehicle refinishing committee of the British Coatings Federation who had come up with the idea of seeking approval to move cellulose and acrylic finishes that are used for historic vehicles from the category in the legislation for normal finishes into the category for special finishes. This would remove the need for any licensing scheme at all. It was felt this might not work at this stage, but could be introduced when the legislation fell due for review after its initial operation period.
d. consultation on a trial of smart card driving licences (11/01/08) This was a new consultation received only the day prior to the meeting and, since it related to a trial in Wales of smart card provisional driving licences, appeared not to have any direct relevance to FBHVC. The secretary said he would read it properly in due course and report back if it had greater significance. JW
C. Other matters
a. Mascots and MoTs The secretary reported he was currently trying to help a Northern Ireland based member of the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club whose Mk II Jaguar had failed its MoT because it had been deemed that the “leaper” mascot, that was a standard fitting on the model, could injure a pedestrian with whom the car might collide. The NI MoT differs from the mainland test and includes an inspection to ensure that vehicles comply with various Construction and Use regulations, including the one which states that vehicles made after 1936 shall not be fitted with mascots likely to injure people . However, since the wording of regulations was in place when the Jaguar was made, it seems that the tester was placing a different interpretation on the regulation to that which applied then. John Stephenson from VOSA was helping to establish whether this was a one-off case where a tester had exceeded his brief or if it was a general policy that might also affect other cars with mascots as standard fittings, such as Rolls-Royces.
b. Class 5 MoT brake test discrepancies A letter from the Friends of London Buses of the 1950s had highlighted differences in standards on testing for brake imbalance for different groups of heavy commercial vehicles. This had been forwarded to John Stephenson, MoT Standards Manager at VOSA, for comment. John said that VOSA recognised the problem, and said a review was already underway to identify inconsistencies between the different test classes and make proposals to eradicate them.
c. MoTs for narrow track cars The secretary said he had heard of a case where an Austin 7 had been refused an MoT on the basis that the track was too narrow to fit the test equipment. He had taken the matter up with John Stephenson at VOSA who had confirmed that an Austin 7 may well be too narrow for some test equipment, but that testers could (at their discretion) carry out the test on hard standing within the test area provided they could raise the wheels from the ground.
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5. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle GroupThe next APPHVG meeting would take place on Wednesday, 14 November and would be attended by Andrew Burt, Chris Hunt Cooke, David Hurley and Geoff Smith. It was agreed the following items should be on the agenda:
Developing contacts with United Nations
Improving relationships with UK MEPs
Establishing an EU-wide MEP equivalent of APPHVG
Possibility of enforcement against VED evaders on private land
Number plate anomaly
Failure of the Science Museum’s Inspired project to reach the public vote.6. European matters
It was noted from EPPA’s latest report that incandescent bulbs for vehicles would not be included in the general requirement to phase out such bulbs for domestic purposes. The spectre of Daytime Running Lights was looming closer and FIVA was monitoring all stages of progress. FIVA had expressed concern to the Commission that the low emission zones that were springing up around Europe had the potential to prevent the free movement that was the cornerstone of the Union: part of the problem was that there was no uniformity of approach because the powers to establish such zones had been delegated to local level.
Andrew Burt reported on the recent FIVA General Assembly at which FBHVC’s board representation had been restored to two directors, himself as Senior Vice President responsible for Operations and Tony Davies as Director responsible for Trade and Skills. The legislation commission chairman had changed from Horst Bruning (who was now FIVA President) to Winfried Kallinger. There was further UK representation as David Davies was serving on the legislation commission, Alan Putt on the technical commission, Colin Francis on the events commission and Eri Heilijgers was also on the legislation commission but would also soon be joining the heritage working group, with a view to standing for election to board level in due course.
7. DVLA
A routine liaison meeting would take place on 15 November and would be attended by Sandy Hamilton (probably his last), Nigel Harrison (Sandy’s understudy), David Hurley and the secretary. The secretary commented that there were no new topics for discussion, and that most of the meeting would probably be devoted to resolving individual problem cases that fell outside the usual guidelines.
8. Other business
None.
9. Nov/Dec Newsletter
The closing date was noted as Monday 12 November.
………………………………………………Chairman Jim Whyman,
Secretary.Next meetings: All Wednesdays at TR Register HQ -
9 January 08; 27 February 08.