MINUTES OF THE SIXTY SECOND LEGISLATION SUB-COMMITTEE MEETING
HELD AT THE TR REGISTER OFFICE, HAWKSWORTH, DIDCOT ON 25 APRIL 2007Those present: John Billard (in the chair); Jacqueline Bickerstaff; Andrew Burt; David Davies; Sandy Hamilton; Geoff Smith; Jim Whyman (secretary).
Apologies for absence: David Hurley; Peter Mead; Rosy Pugh; Matt Vincent.
Eri Heilijgers apologised after the meeting - he had set out to attend, but the M25 was blocked due to an accident.1. Minutes of the meeting of 21 February 2007
The minutes of the meeting of 21 February were approved and signed.
2. Matters arising not included on the agenda
None
3. UK Legislative Matters
A. Post consultation position reports:
a. Measures to enforce insurance “from the record” No developments.
b. Improving access to public transport for the disabled No developments.
c. Transposing EU Directive 2004/42/CE (VOC) into UK law Consultation still awaited - the secretary said he had received an e-mail from Ian Oldfield at DEFRA apologising for the delay and re-affirming the intention to implement a licensing system before the end of the year. JW
d. MoT testing for fire appliances David Hurley had written to the Fire Service Preservation Society as discussed at the previous meeting , but had yet to receive a response. DH
e. Testing requirements for new drivers of large vehicles No developments and (subject to David Hurley’s agreement) it was suggested this item should be removed from the agenda.
f. Operator Licensing consultation As e., above.
g. Proposed changes to the on-road and off-road motor event regulations No further news. JW
h. DVLA consultation on fee proposals No further news.
j. DVLA consultation on registration transfers Presumably as a result of the 2006 consultation, a short Bill supported by DfT had been introduced in Parliament at the end of 2006, the effect of which would be to improve the rights of those placing numbers on retention. It was agreed this item should be removed from the agenda.
k. MoT fee consultation No further news.
l. Consultation on interoperability of electronic toll collection systems No further news, although all present were agreed that electronic toll collection systems were bound to be introduced in UK in due course.
m. Consultation on licensing for in-vehicle information systems No further news.
n. DSA service improvements No developments and (subject to David Hurley’s agreement) it was suggested this item should be removed from the agenda.
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3. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
o. VOSA fees and minor changes to MoT testing The changes to the MoT test related mainly to number plate testing. New guidance had been introduced. It was agreed this item should be removed from the agenda..
p. Legislative changes to comply with European regulations on drivers’ hours FBHVC’s response to the consultation had been accepted and the definition of an historic vehicle for the purposes of an exemption from the tachograph regulations was to be a simple 25 years. Details of how that would implemented were awaited.
q. Low Emission Zone for London - draft “scheme order” No further news.
r. Consultation on draft regulations for emissions and speed limiter requirements Not relevant - agreed to be removed from the agenda.
s. Consultation on Tachographs - Data downloading and record retention As r., above.
t. Consultation on minimum levels of insurance cover As r., above.
B. Current consultations (closing date day/month)a. International Cooperation on Driving Disqualifications (08/05) Not relevant - agreed to be removed from the agenda.
b. Consultation on Class VL weight limit and future equipment strategy for VTS (18/05) The element of this consultation relating the Class VL weight limit was not contentious and not directly relevant to historic vehicles, but the future equipment strategy related to the future of automated testing lanes and so was of potential concern. It was agreed FBHVC should respond pointing out that there would always be vehicles for which automated testing lanes would be unsuitable and that any future strategy must always allow for testing of such vehicles. JW; DH
c. Consultation on the introduction of a new fee structure for driver enquiries (25/05) This related simply to a proposal to increase the charge for providing details of vehicle keepers and was not relevant to historic vehicles. Agreed to be removed from the agenda.
d. MoT Guide 6th Edition Section N (22/06) Section N relates only to contingency procedures to be adopted at testing stations in the event of computer failure, and was unlikely to be of relevance to FBHVC, but the secretary said he would read it through to make sure. JW
e. Consultation on proposals to allow the electronic delivery of certificates of motor insurance The proposal was to change current regulations to allow insurance companies to send confirmation of insurance electronically. This had no specific relevance to historic vehicles - agreed to be removed from the agenda.
f. Consultation on annual update of emissions standards for MoT testing This was a routine annual update of emission standards for testing modern vehicles and thus had no relevance to historic vehicles - agreed to be removed from the agenda.
C. Other mattersa. Off Road Vehicle (Registration) Bill The secretary explained that this Bill sought to introduce a mechanism for the registration of motor cycles and quad bikes that were not required to register for road use and would change the basis on which vehicles may be registered accordingly. The penalty for failure to register would be destruction of the machine in question. The aim was to control nuisance caused by the (usually already illegal) use of small off-road motorcycles. The Bill (which was opposed by government and DVLA) had had its second reading and was now in committee stage. The secretary said he had written to the Bill’s sponsor pointing out the fact that his Bill as drafted would penalise owners of historic machines that had either lost their registrations or had never been registered. He had also commented that it was grossly unfair to penalise someone with the destruction of a machine simply for not registering: if the Bill was to proceed, the destruction penalty should be limited to the use of an unregistered machine. He had also alerted the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group to the problem. JW
b. Vehicle Registration Marks Bill [see item 3.A.j above]
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3. UK Legislative Matters (contd)
c. Northern Ireland Parades Commission The secretary reported that the recommendation of the Parades Commissioner that events for historic vehicles should be removed from the scope of his Commission had fallen on deaf ears. Instead of following the recommendation, the Secretary of State for N Ireland had decided to try to simplify the application form. The problem was that the law required such application forms to be delivered in person at the police station nearest the start of the event to a police officer of the rank of sergeant or higher. The secretary said he had written again to the Secretary of State highlighting regulations that Mo Mowlam had introduced to take Salvation Army events out of the scope of the rules and suggesting simple wording that would exempt historic vehicle events without opening opportunities for exploitation. The suggestion had been declined. JW
4. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group
Greg Knight had managed to secure a meeting with a senior official in the heritage side of the Department for Culture Media and Sport. Andrew Burt and Geoff Smith had attended, but Eri Heilijgers had been unable to do so due to short notice. Andrew and Geoff had introduced FBHVC and FIVA to DCMS, and had explained how FBHVC wanted to develop links with other heritage organisations. DCMS was currently consulting on the process of listing and protecting heritage, and it was agreed that FBHVC should respond to the consultation (which closes at the end of May). It was agreed that Andrew Burt would ask Eri Heilijgers to study the consultation and draft a response. AB; EH
The secretary said he had drafted a letter to John Healey, the Financial Secretary at HM Treasury with responsibility for Excise Duty, asking him to re-introduce a rolling element to the VED concession for historic vehicles and had sent a copy to Greg Knight at the end of March for his approval, but had had no reply. The meeting agreed the letter should be sent anyway. JW
5. European matters
It was noted that Day Time Running Lights had been made mandatory in Poland.
EC proposals to increase duty on diesel and to harmonise road access taxes (such as our Vehicle Excise Duty) with the implications for UK, where both such taxes are amongst the highest in Europe, were discussed.
It was noted that the next FIVA legislation meeting would be taking place in Malmo and it was agreed that both David Davies and Eri Heilijgers should attend if possible. DD; EH
6. DVLA
A routine liaison meeting would be taking place on 17 May. Sandy Hamilton outlined the proposed agenda, which was agreed.
John Billard mentioned that the Road Roller Association was refusing to provide V765 approval for road rollers that had been converted to traction engines. While there was wide sympathy for the RRA position, there was nothing in law or DVLA guidelines that would prevent the reclaim of a number as a result of such a conversion.
7. Other business
John Billard reported that there was concern in steam circles because it was understood that New Zealand was requiring drivers of steam engines to have HGV licences.
John Billard said that Elaine Massey, who was Child Protection Officer for the National Traction Engine Trust’s Steam Apprentices scheme had expressed an interest in becoming involved with the FBHVC legislation team. It was agreed that, subject to David Hurley’s agreement, she should be invited to the next meeting. It was suggested her experience dealing with children might mean she would make a valuable contribution to Henry Lawson’s project to encourage interest in historic vehicle matters amongst the young. JW; DH
David Davies said he had found nothing of significance to the historic vehicle movement on the Health and Safety Executive website.
8. May/June Newsletter
The closing date was noted as Monday 14 May.
………………………………………………Chairman Jim Whyman, Secretary.
Next meetings: All Wednesdays at TR Register HQ -
27 June; 22 August; 31 October; 9 January 08; 27 February 08