9 SEPTEMBER 2005
Present:
Lord Montagu Andrew Burt (in the chair) Jacqueline Bickerstaff
David Davies Michael Edwards Sandy Hamilton
David Hurley Rosy Pugh Mike YoungIn attendance Kelvin Hopkins MP Ian Edmunds (CBQC)
Derek Grossmark (vice president) Geoff Smith (vice president) Jim Whyman (secretary & treasurer)
The Chairman thanked Lord Montagu for hosting the meeting and welcomed Kelvin Hopkins MP from the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group.1. Apologies for absence
Tony Beadle; John Billard; Ian Edmunds; Colin Francis; Julian Ghosh; Tim Holt; David Marsh; Peter Mead.
Kelvin Hopkins presented apologies on behalf of Greg Knight MP who had intended to be present but had been detained on constituency business.
2. UK mattersa) All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group
Kelvin Hopkins described the re-formation of the group following the General Election earlier in the year. The first meeting would be taking place in October. The group was keen to campaign on behalf of enthusiasts and welcomed the opportunity for dialogue with FBHVC.b) Matters arising from legislation committee activity
David Hurley outlined topics that were under current consideration. These included the potential effects of the Disability Discrimination Act on operators of services using historic vehicles; plans for MoT testing of fire appliances; the new electronic control system for the MoT test; and changes to regulations requiring the use of seat belts by children.Other topics discussed included:-
• Potential problems for motor-cyclists arising from the re-drafting of the Driving Licence Directive – the proposals to limit access to the more powerful machines on the basis of age and movement up a qualification ladder were particularly strongly opposed by UK motorcyclists, but it was recognised that this was not an issue that would have a direct impact on the use of historic machines. It was agreed to look into the topic more closely at the next legislation meeting.
• DVLA funding in the aftermath of the 2004 consultation that was still being considered by ministers.
• Difficulties with vehicle waste disposal and the concern that new regulations might be the first step in moves to outlaw home servicing – the regulations require those producing, handling or disposing of vehicle waste by way of business to register for the purpose. An article in a trade magazine suggested that the logical extension of these measures was to prevent those who are not so registered having access to such material in the first place, thus preventing individuals carrying out their own servicing.
• The refusal of the Department for Transport to consider lifting the ban on obtaining replacement plates for vehicles made between 1973 and 2001 in the font appropriate to the age of the vehicle.Kelvin Hopkins commented that it seemed unreasonable not to have exemptions for historic vehicles in legislation such as the Disability and Discrimination Act and the seat belt regulations and said that he could not imagine any proposal to ban home servicing being put forward. He pointed out that it was often necessary to keep plugging away at an issue such as the number plates in order to get a satisfactory result.
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- 2 -3. EU affairs
Geoff Smith reported on progress with the FIVA survey. It had taken considerable effort and planning to reach a common position amongst the 11 EU countries participating, but that position had been reached and questionnaire forms were being printed ready for distribution during the autumn. The exercise was intended to provide accurate, trustworthy, statistical data about ownership, patterns of use and economic activity within the historic vehicle movement that could be used to support discussions with legislators and regulators at both European and National levels.
Geoff went on to suggest that plans should be laid now for follow up research to assess the environmental impact from a range of historic vehicles so that when combined with use patterns derived from the current survey it would be possible to make an assessment of the overall environmental impact of the movement.
In addition to the Driving Licence Directive, mentioned above, other EU proposals that were under consideration included:-
• the Road Safety Programme: FIVA had become a signatory to the Road Safety Charter and was committed to providing guidance on the best practice for operation of old vehicles in modern traffic;
• the so called e-safety programme that had originally proposed remote operation of vehicle control systems so that, for instance, traffic could be slowed on the approach to the scene of an accident. However, due to concerns about the potential for claims in the event of accidents resulting from removal of driver control, this had now been much watered down;
• and discussions about CO2 emission based vehicle taxation which could have a serious and unfair impact on historic vehicles that tend to be less efficient but are used infrequently. Research showing the actual effects of the use of historic vehicles would enable FIVA to counter adverse taxation proposals.The meeting went on to note that different EU countries have different definitions of historic vehicles for different purposes and this was illustrative of the general difficulties of achieving commonality amongst EU countries not only at political level but also at FIVA level.
It was noted that proposals for Daytime Running Lights had met a set back following an experiment in France, and there was considerable sympathy for French enthusiasts for historic military vehicles who were under the threat of a total ban on the private possession of such machines.
4. Approval of minutes of meeting of 19 July 2005
The minutes of the meeting of 19 July were signed as accurate.
5. Matters arising
Member clubs The secretary reported that 346 Clubs and 18 Museums were paid up to May 2006. 20 clubs and two museums had yet to renew their subscriptions for the current year. He said he had made contact by telephone with most, and was expecting all but four or five to renew. One was known to have folded, three seemed to have disappeared. Total membership of the 346 clubs was 238,000 with a further 9,000 amongst the 15 clubs expected to renew bringing the total to just under quarter of a million. [Note: the secretary may have given slightly different figures at the meeting as a result of working from memory – the figures stated have been checked against the database].
Insurance The secretary said he was growing uneasy about the service on offer to clubs from Footman James, and was thus becoming keener to develop an alternative scheme. However, communication with Willis – the brokerage that had tentatively offered a straightforward scheme with modest minimum premiums – showed anything but enthusiasm, although they had suggested a meeting in the autumn. JW
6. FIVA matters including nominations for the General Assembly
The Chairman said that FIVA had appointed Richard Sanders to take over from him as General Secretary at the General Assembly. It was agreed Richard should be invited to attend FBHVC’s AGM. JW
Geoff Smith described the results of a recent meeting of FIVA’s General Committee as extremely disappointing: new statutes had been planned to give those who carry responsibility within FIVA some say in the running of the organisation while reducing the number of positions occupied by the inactive.
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- 3 -6. FIVA matters including nominations for the General Assembly (contd)
Although the proposed new statutes (that draw a distinction between statute and regulation with the former capable of being changed only by General Assembly while the latter may be amended by the committee) were an improvement, they still included positions of power on the decision making team for individuals with no specific responsibilities. It was not clear if the new statutes would be accepted or not, and it was thus necessary to make nominations to cater for either eventuality.
The most important position to be filled if the new statutes were accepted was that of Chairman of the Legislation commission, a role that was currently being fulfilled by Geoff Smith in his capacity as a Vice President of FIVA. It seemed likely that Horst Bruning from Sweden (who had come to FIVA from IHVO) would be nominated. No one from FBHVC was willing to accept nomination for election to take on this particular task.
After further discussion, it was agreed that Andrew Burt should be nominated for the position of Vice President, Finance & Planning (if the new statutes are accepted) or for the position of Vice President (if the statutes remain unchanged). It was also agreed that Colin Francis should be nominated for re-election to the position of Vice Chairman of the Events Commission, and Alan Putt nominated for election to the position of Vice Chairman of the Technical Commission. It was further agreed that if the new statutes are rejected, Andrew Burt should be nominated for re-election to the position of Vice-President of the Legal Commission. JW
It was noted that FIVA is proposing a 10% increase in fees in 2007, yet there was no proper budget to demonstrate a need for such an increase. It was agreed that UK should vote against this proposal if those representing FBHVC at the General Assembly [Geoff Smith; David Davies and Colin Francis] deemed it to be the appropriate course of action. GS; DD; CF
7. Annual General Meeting and conference arrangements
The usual arrangements for the AGM were in hand. David Davies agreed to chair the afternoon conference session at which a team of three senior VOSA officials would give a presentation on MoT testing in the electronic age and then answer questions. The secretary reminded the meeting that Peter Baines, the secretary of the Rolls-Royce Enthusiasts Club, had died earlier in the year and said he believed that the AGM would be the last occasion on which his widow, Jo, would be providing a catering service at the Hunt House. It was agreed that the occasion should be marked by the presentation of a small gift and bunch of flowers. JW
8. Shows and displays
The secretary reported that the organisers of the International Classic Car Show had offered a stand with nine metre frontage and four metre depth backing onto a wall – this was considered too large, and it was agreed the secretary should seek a stand of roughly half the size in a better location. If this was not forthcoming, the meeting authorised the chairman, David Davies and the secretary to make a decision not to attend the show this year. If a suitable stand was offered, David Davies agreed to take charge. AB; DD; JW
9. Finance and planning
It was agreed that a study of the proposals contained in “Vision 2005-2010” should be the main agenda item for the November meeting. Mike Young said he would discuss the plan for a PowerPoint presentation with Rosy Pugh and David Davies prior to that meeting and report back then. MY; RP; DD
The secretary reported that commission payments from Motor Sport Travel had dwindled to a fraction of their initial value and said he had had problems dealing with the company. It was agreed that the relationship should be terminated lest FBHVC’s reputation should suffer. JW
10. Other matters
David Davies reminded the meeting that the Vintage Motor Cycle Club would be pleased to host a committee meeting at their HQ at Burton on Trent.
………….…………………………….. Chairman P H J Whyman, Secretary.