SUNDAY 16 JANUARY 2005
Present:
Andrew Burt (chairman) Tony Beadle Jacqueline Bickerstaff
John Billard David Davies Michael Edwards
Colin Francis Julian Ghosh David Hurley
Rosy PughIn attendance Geoff Smith (vice president) Jim Whyman (secretary & treasurer)
The chairman welcomed John Billard to his first meeting after election at the October 2004 AGM.
1. Apologies for absence
Lord Montagu; Derek Grossmark; Ian Edmunds; Sandy Hamilton; Tim Holt; David Marsh; Peter Mead; Mike Young (subsequently, due to diary confusion).
2. Approval of minutes of meeting of 21 November 2004
After changing the numbers quoted in the fourth paragraph of item 7 from “70 to 80 thousand” to “120 to 130 thousand”, the minutes of the meeting of 23 November were signed as accurate.
3. Matters Arising
3.8 Shows The secretary reported that a questionnaire about the NEC International Classic Motor Show had been drafted in conjunction with the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club and circulated to relevant subscriber clubs. Over thirty replies had been received by JEC so far. Analysis would take place in February.
Space had been booked for the Classic Bike Show at Stafford over the weekend of 23/24 April. David Davies asked for early confirmation of space and position so he could plan accordingly. The exhibit would be a 500cc Matchless. Jacqueline Bickerstaff confirmed that she would help. JW, DD
5 Petition The chairman reported on the delivery of the petition calling on the Prime Minister to block DVLA proposals to levy an annual registration charge. Over 50,000 signatures had been handed in at 10 Downing Street by a joint delegation comprising Lord Montagu, Geoff Smith and himself from FBHVC and Greg Knight, John Cryer and Kelvin Hopkins from the Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Club. Earlier, Tim Yeo, Shadow Transport Minister, had announced that – if elected – a Conservative administration would abolish any such fee. He had also given a commitment to consider a return to a rolling date for the threshold for VED exemption. Transport between Parliament and Downing Street had been provided by Lord Montagu’s 1899 Daimler and Ray McMullen’s 1955 Alvis.
There had been no response from Downing Street, but it was understood that Greg Knight was planning an Early Day Motion to highlight the issue. The secretary agreed to enquire about progress. JW9 Member clubs The secretary said he was pleased to report that the Citroen Car Club had re-joined. He had heard nothing further from the Austin Healey Club, but had received an application to re-join from the Jaguar Drivers Club that claimed a membership of just 977: following conversations at NEC (at which it had been agreed JDC could discount overseas members and those only owning the latest cars) he had been expecting a figure of between five and six thousand, roughly 60% of JDC gross membership. He had asked JDC to justify the number given and read the reply stating that 977 was the number of vehicles listed in JDC’s registers. The meeting was agreed that the figure was unreasonably low, but was divided about action – some felt the application should be rejected as acceptance would set a dangerous precedent; others felt it should be accepted on the understanding that JDC would declare a more realistic number at renewal. It was decided that 977 was not acceptable and that the secretary should discuss the matter with JDC. JW
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- 2 -4. UK Legislation
David Hurley reported on proceedings at the meeting of the Legislation Committee that had taken place four days previously. Items of particular concern included consultations on enforcement of insurance regulations “from the record”; review of regulations governing the supply of number plates; and implementation of the waste framework directive in respect of agricultural waste. [Note: please refer to minutes of meeting 12/01/05 for further details].
The meeting had also been concerned about stories of a proposal to tax organisers of large events. The secretary said he had now found that this emanated from the Department of Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) and was included in a consultation that had closed on 23 December 2004. The consultation related to the implementation of new regulations required by the Licensing Act 2003. The proposal of concern was buried amongst a raft of other detail relating to licensing and would affect events at temporary venues for which a licence to sell alcohol was required AND where more than 6,000 people were expected to be present at any one time. The proposed charges ranged from £5,000 to £50,000. It was clear from the consultation that DCMS would have to make a decision on fee levels by 7 February, the date set in the Act for implementation of new provisions, but it was not known at the date of the meeting what those charges would be. The meeting felt that it was right that local authorities should be able to recover the costs of monitoring events from organisers, rather than from council tax payers, but the proposed level of charges seemed unreasonably high. John Billard felt that FBHVC should check that organisers of large vehicle events had been amongst the consultees – if there had been none, it could be argued that the consultation, and any regulations resulting, was invalid. The secretary agreed to check. JW
[Note: the list of consultees is not available on the web: a list has been requested. The charges were published in SI 2005/79 on 21 January – they range from £1,000 for events with between five and ten thousand attendees up to £64,000 for events with over 90,000.]
5. EU Legislation
Geoff Smith described the latest position on the proposal to re-draft the Driving Licence Directive and commented that UK MEPs serving on the European Parliament’s Transport Commission had been asked to support amendments that had been tabled on behalf of FIVA to protect existing entitlements to tow trailers and drive (unladen) preserved commercial vehicles on normal car licences. They had also been urged to support amendments that would protect the position of historic motorcyclists that had been tabled on behalf of the motor cycle movement.
6. FIVA Report
Geoff Smith commented on changes within FIVA following the re-integration of those federations that had supported IHVO. He felt that the organisation had huge potential, and that it was vital for the movement to ensure that FIVA’s structure and administration was able to exploit this potential for the benefit of all enthusiasts. Recent dealings with the EU Commission and MEPs had confirmed that there was no animosity towards the historic vehicle movement, and it was felt this was unlikely to change while the movement took its responsibilities seriously.
FIVA had been accepted as a signatory to the European Road Safety Charter on the understanding that it would act to maintain the current excellent road safety record enjoyed by historic vehicle drivers. To that end, the FBHVC secretary had started drafting a Drivers’ Code that would be put to the FIVA legislation commission meeting in February. The secretary said that he hoped to be able to complete the draft in time to invite committee members’ comments before that meeting. The aim was to increase FIVA’s visibility. JW
Progress on getting the project to collect data and statistics from ten countries in Europe started was frustratingly slow: the problem lay with funding. Geoff Smith said he was awaiting a decision from a consortium of motor manufacturers in Germany as to whether or not they would support the project. They had concerns that a survey undertaken by the German federation would not produce representative results, and they were also keen to get information on patterns of behaviour with vehicles over 20 years old rather than FIVA’s proposed cut-off date of 25 years. He felt both of these problems could be overcome. What was causing him more concern was an apparent lack of commitment from FIVA: despite a vote in favour of supporting the project at the recent meeting of FIVA’s General Committee, the necessary funds had not yet committed.
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- 3 -6. FIVA Report (contd)
The problem appeared to lie in a divergence of views on how the project should be managed: Geoff said he had proposed the project on the basis that he would run it and take responsibility for it, but only if given a free hand – and that meant having the necessary funding from the various contributors in hand before the project started. Others in FIVA took the view that the project should be run under the auspices of FIVA and that contributors should pay their contributions to FIVA who would then handle the accounting. Geoff made it clear that he would not consider running the project on that basis, pointing out that the amount of work involved was large by any standards, let alone for an unpaid volunteer, without the further burden of having to get agreement from others for each element of expenditure.
The meeting considered this a serious problem: without up to date data, the ability to lobby effectively at both national and European levels would be seriously compromised. After due deliberation, the meeting was unanimous in instructing the chairman to write to the President of FIVA urging him to sanction the project, as proposed and planned by Geoff Smith, as a matter of urgency. The secretary agreed to write to the chairman to confirm the meeting’s decision. AB, JW
David Davies was congratulated on the quality of the recent issue of FIVA Actuel. David commented that he was working with FIVA colleagues in The Netherlands to improve the quality of the FIVA website.
7. DVLA
There was no discussion under this heading.
8. Finance & Planning
The secretary highlighted two items that would diminish FBHVC’s potential surplus: first, new Financial Services Authority regulations meant an end to the relationship with Britannia Rescue (a notice would be appearing in the next newsletter explaining why this should be) with a resulting loss of income to FBHVC of some £500 a year; and second, the new arrangements for the issue of FIVA ID cards meant a cost to FBHVC of £10 per card, or roughly £1,000 a year. The six month figures distributed prior to the last meeting showed a sufficiently healthy position to absorb these two factors without needing to change the policy of increasing the per-capita subscription rate for clubs by no more than inflation. The secretary recommended a .7 p increase from 30.8 p per member to 31.5 p –representing a 2.3% increase. This was approved. JW
Recognising the need to keep members of the Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Clubs interested in the movement, the meeting considered ways in which they could be introduced to all aspects of the movement. Julian Ghosh offered to arrange for all PHVC members to be added to the VSCC mailing list. It was agreed as a general principle that officers of PHVC should continue to be invited to attend the Beaulieu committee meeting, dinner and autojumble and that all members of PHVC should be invited to attend two landmark events each year.
It was agreed that for 2005, the secretary should invite members of PHVC to attend the VMCC Banbury Run on 19 June and the VSCC Donington Park “See Red” meeting over the weekend of 2/3 September. It was agreed he would request expressions of interest by four weeks prior to the events to give time for appropriate hospitality planning. If the proposed 2005 arrangement worked, suitable events for 2006 might be the London to Brighton run for commercial vehicles and the Great Dorset Steam Fair. JW
9. Other matters
The secretary reminded members present of the arrangement under which Dr. Brian Holdstock had designed the current website. The intention had been that the secretary should take over the day to day operation of the site, but he admitted he had not found time to master the technique. Brian was still doing everything, and charging at £40 per hour. Aside from the cost, Brian was a busy man, and there were thus inevitably delays, sometimes quite lengthy, between requests for a change and anything happening. The underlying problem, however, was finding time to prepare interesting material to provide to Brian to enable him to keep the site refreshed on a regular basis.
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- 4 -9. Other matters (contd)
During November, FBHVC had had an approach from Steve Day, who had taken up web site design and management as a retirement activity. Steve lived relatively close to the secretary and was offering his services to FBHVC to re-vamp the site and operate it on a commercial basis at a rate that would work out less than the amount being paid at present. A sample site had been available for inspection, and those who had seen it expressed themselves satisfied with it. The meeting agreed the secretary should take matters further with Steve Day, negotiate a fee and report back. The secretary said he would raise the matter with Brian Holdstock to ensure he was happy before going further. JW
The secretary said he had received details of a liability insurance scheme that had been put together at the instigation of the Austin Seven Clubs’ Association by Willis Limited based on the simple principle that the insured would be afforded “full cover and protection from any claim for which the insured is found responsible by a court of law”. It was understood that the minimum premiums would be around £75, certainly rather more attractive than the £262.50 current minima for each section of insurance being offered by Footman James. There was scepticism that any policy would be so loosely worded, and concern that any claimant would actually have to go to law to get a ruling before any claim would be settled. John Billard commented that insurance (or the difficulty of obtaining it) was the problem most likely to prevent the continuation of a thriving historic vehicle movement. The meeting agreed the secretary should follow the matter up and David Hurley agreed to study any draft policy documents. JW
Colin Francis said it was probably too early to discuss Alan Putt’s handling of FIVA ID card applications, but he said he had had a couple of comments that Alan’s interpretation of the rules was more strict that Martin Grant Peterkin’s had been and he felt it may be necessary for the committee to review matters if problems continued.
………….…………………………….. Chairman P H J Whyman, Secretary.