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TUESDAY 21 MARCH 2006

Present:

Andrew Burt (chairman) Tony Beadle Jacqueline Bickerstaff
David Davies Michael Edwards Colin Francis
Sandy Hamilton Tim Holt David Hurley
David Marsh Peter Mead Rosy Pugh
Mike Young

In attendance:
Derek Grossmark (vice president) Geoff Smith (vice president) John Symes (MSA)
Jim Whyman (secretary)

1. Apologies for absence

Lord Montagu; John Billard; Ian Edmunds; Julian Ghosh.

2. Approval of minutes of meeting of 27 November 2005

The chairman signed the minutes of the meeting of 27 November as accurate.

3. Matters Arising from previous meeting

3.5 Insurance
The secretary reported that the meeting with Willis had been successful, and had led to the start of a new public liability insurance scheme for clubs. This had been launched at the beginning of February. One large club had already save a four figure amount on its premium, and the availability of economical insurance had sparked a small surge in applications for membership from small clubs. The secretary said he was optimistic that the scheme would prove to be a valuable benefit of membership and that the additional administrative burden would be offset by additional income derived from membership growth.

3.8 Shows and Displays
David Davies said all arrangements were in hand for the Classic Bike show. He would be setting up the stand in the usual way. Jacqueline Bickerstaff said she was planning to take charge of the stand throughout the show as David would have other responsibilities. JBff; DD

3.9 Power Point presentation
Mike Young said he had improved the appearance of the Power Point presentation and incorporated the suggestions he had received following the November meeting. Copies had been sent to all who had e-mail.
The meeting thanked Mike for his work. There were several further suggestions, the most important being that the logo should appear on each slide. Mike remarked that it was so easy to change the slides that there was no reason why the presentation should not be constantly evolving. Consideration now had to be given to how best to make use of this technology to advance the cause. MY & all

4. FIVA

The chairman said that recent changes in the structure of FIVA meant it was important for FBHVC to re-examine its links with FIVA to ensure that British interests were properly represented. He commented that FIVA was the best mechanism available to enable the historic vehicle movement in UK to influence European legislators, and it was thus important to UK that FIVA should at least maintain its existing level of legislative work.
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4. FIVA (contd)

FBHVC’s current representation in FIVA was as follows:-
Andrew Burt – serving as vice president with responsibility for finance and planning as well as serving on the legislation and heritage commissions
David Davies – overseeing communication, also serving on the legislation commission
Colin Francis – serving on the events commission
Alan Putt – serving on the technical commission
Geoff Smith – overseeing the economic and cultural survey

All present agreed that the work of the legislation commission was the most important aspect of FIVA’s activity. This essential work was very much underpinned by the professional lobbying firm, EPPA, and there was concern that budgetary pressures might, in the future, cause FIVA to reduce the level of service provided by EPPA, or even do away with it altogether. It was noted that despite this level of importance, the legislation committee still only accounted for 25% of FIVA’s overall budget, so it was deemed essential that FBHVC should retain sufficient influence within FIVA to be able to ensure continuing professional lobbying assistance. It was also noted that fees to FIVA would be increasing by 10% for the 2006/7 year, the first increase for four years.

Geoff Smith would cease to be involved in FIVA once the survey was completed and there were no other committee members coming forward to enhance FBHVC representation. After considerable discussion, it was agreed that efforts should be made to find two people within the historic vehicle movement at large who had suitable skills and background and who would be willing at least to attend the next General Assembly with a view to becoming more closely involved and perhaps standing for election to office the following year. It was agreed that the existing FIVA representatives should be responsible for identifying and sounding out potential candidates. AB; DD; CF, AP; GS

5. All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group

The chairman reported that he and Geoff Smith had attended a meeting of the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group the previous week. APPHVG had been represented by Greg Knight and Kelvin Hopkins. Topics for the agenda had been submitted in advance, and Greg had made preliminary enquiries of ministers although he had not had any feedback by the date of the meeting. Matters discussed were: proposals to change the basis of payment for commercial vehicle operators’ licences; the effects of the disability discrimination act on heritage bus/coach services; the parades commission problems for clubs in N Ireland; the unfair impact of the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill; the importance of the historic vehicle movement to national heritage; the hurdles facing new drivers wishing to acquire “vocational” licences to enable them to drive large historic commercial vehicles; and the launch of FIVA’s Economic and Cultural Research Project.

Geoff Smith said that Greg Knight had been helpful in finding somewhere in Westminster where the results of the survey could be launched: a venue had been booked for 11 October.

Greg and Kelvin would be coming to Beaulieu.

6. UK Legislation

David Hurley said minutes of the 22 February meeting had been circulated and the only thing he wished to comment further on was the consultation on the proposed Low Emission Zone for London. The proposal would not affect cars, motor cycles or light commercial vehicles and was aimed at encouraging operators of heavy diesel-engined vehicles to use the latest, lowest emission, vehicles in London. There was no proposal to ban any vehicles, but there would be charges designed to deter, rather than prevent, the “dirtiest” vehicles from entering the zone. The legislation committee had been pleased that the consultation suggested taking heritage vehicles out of the scope of the proposal on the basis that it was a contradiction to encourage heritage vehicle operators to replace their vehicles with new ones and that their use was infrequent. However, there was a difficulty with definition since the proposal foresaw a rolling trigger date for heritage status, yet wanted to link entitlement to vehicle taxation class for ease of administration and enforcement. This in turn led to two difficulties – first, the historic vehicle class no longer had a rolling date, and, second, heritage vehicles used commercially (for instance heritage coach and bus services) could not licence in the historic class.
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6. UK Legislation (contd)

It was agreed that it was important to do everything possible to help GLA get its definitions right as it was inevitable that other authorities in UK would take London’s lead if/when they decided to follow suit.
It was agreed that FBHVC’s response to the consultation (due in by 24 April) should concentrate on the need to establish a satisfactory definition that was easy to understand (and thus to monitor and enforce) whilst being fair to the interests of preservationists. DH; JW

7. EU Legislation

There was nothing on the EU front to add to the report from EPPA that had been distributed with the agenda for the meeting. David Davies reported on a meeting of the FIVA legislation team in Vienna where there had been an exchange of information on regulations relating to old vehicles in different countries. One thing that had been of note was that there are parts of Venice where vehicles of residents are banned unless they are historic. There had been progress on the drivers’ code, and more consideration given to the definition of an historic vehicle.

Tony Beadle commented that there were conflicting definitions of historic vehicles – sometimes it was vehicles over 25 years, sometimes over 30. It was noted that FIVA which had only recently completed an advance from 20 to 25 years was planning to advance again to 30 years to enhance its credibility with EU legislators because there were parts of Europe where vehicles of close to this age remain in daily use.

The secretary said he believed it would be best to avoid any fixed definition as different circumstances needed different approaches. He said the best definition that he had seen was wide open, and was in use in in the End of Life Vehicle directive. [Recital 10 of Directive 2003/53/EC says: Vintage vehicles, meaning historic vehicles or vehicles of value to collectors or intended for museums, kept in a proper and environmentally sound manner, either ready for use or stripped into parts, are not covered by the definition of waste laid down by Directive 75/442/EEC and do not fall within the scope of this Directive.]

8. Maximising Impact of Drive It Day

It was clear that the Drive It Day idea had generated considerable interest and there was much support for it. Geoff Smith said he had been interviewed by local radio. It was agreed that the secretary should send out a further press release on the subject to encourage the specialist press to give the event publicity and to explain to the non specialist press what it was all about. JW

9. Finance and Planning

A. Accounts for the nine months to 28 February
Accounts for the nine months to 28 February had been sent prior to the meeting. The secretary commented that the result was ahead of budget. The only uncertainty was cost in relation to the European Survey (which was being treated as an extraordinary item). Expenditure so far had been well within budget, but there would be further costs that were now likely to fall into the 2006/7 financial year.
The secretary had circulated a proposal for subscriptions for the 2006/7 year – with the per capita rate for clubs rising by 2.5% to 32.3p (subject to the same £25 minimum rate) and museums and traders staying the same. It was suggested that individuals should rise from £11 to £12 for one year, or £21 for two years to further encourage two-year payments. David Hurley proposed that the new rates be adopted. All agreed. JW

B. Committee attendance expenses
It had been clear at the management audit weekend that there was a general sense of unfairness about the lack of a mechanism for committee members to recover the costs of travelling to routine meetings. There had been general agreement that this matter should be addressed. The secretary suggested that a simple system whereby committee members signed-in for each meeting they attended and at the same time stated the number of miles travelled (or the actual cost of public transport). The secretary would keep accounts for each committee member, crediting these accounts at the rate of 25p per mile (or actual cost). When accounts reached £200, or every six months, the secretary would raise cheques to settle the accounts. There would, of course, be no need for people to claim if they had no wish to do so. The secretary said he had calculated that this might add around £2,000 annually to costs, although following a question from Derek Grossmark, he agreed this might be an underestimate and said he would revisit his calculation.
The meeting agreed that this system should be put in place and back dated to the beginning of the year. JW
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9. Finance and Planning (contd)

C. Matters arising from management audit weekend
D. Vision 2005-10
The chairman said that the management audit weekend had resulted in an action plan that was complementary to the Vision 2005-10 document that had been approved in 2005. A revised version of that document had been prepared showing the additional actions resulting from the audit weekend and copies had been sent to all committee members prior to the meeting.

The first item was to review the Federation’s constitution. The November committee meeting had delegated initial responsibility for this task to the chairman, secretary, Julian Ghosh and John Billard for report by the May meeting. A meeting had taken place the previous week and preliminary recommendations circulated. These were:-
• Amend the articles of association and the constitution so they became one and the same, at the same time making the requirements for specific representation rather more flexible.
• AGM to elect a board with responsibility for policy and appointment to sub groups. The board would be the same size as the present committee and meet three times a year.
• Day to day management to be in the hands of a smaller operations team comprising the chairman, deputy, secretary and heads of specialist sub-committees.
• Time scale should be to develop the plan sufficiently to put it in outline to the 2006 AGM with a view to implementing changes from the 2007 AGM.

This recommendation provoked considerable discussion with a full spectrum of views being expressed. The most telling points were:-
• The proposal would emphasise the “them and us” perception mentioned by some committee members at the management audit meeting by re-inforcing the position of the few who are involved in everything.
• That it contradicted the basic idea that management should be simplified.
• The fact that a decision had been made to use members’ money to pay expenses for attending meetings meant there was an implicit duty on the committee both to minimise the number of such meetings and make best use of them: there was doubt the proposal would have that effect.

The following agreements were reached:-
• The articles and constitution should be revised to make them coincide.
• There was majority support for making the requirements for representation more flexible.
• The AGM should remain paramount and should elect the board.
• Sub groups should answer directly to the board which should retain overall responsibility for planning and finance.
• Assuming agreement could be reached internally, a preliminary announcement of intent should be made at the 2006 AGM with a view to implementation a year later.

It was clear that many objected to the idea of having a separate “operations team”, although all recognised there had to be a structure in place to deal with day-to-day matters arising between board meetings. There was no consensus on the size of the board or the frequency of meeting: some felt the board should remain at the same or similar size to the present to ensure breadth of representation, others that it should be reduced to no more than ten to improve efficiency. Some felt three meetings a year (as proposed) was too few, others felt there was no point in having meetings if there was no significant business to transact.

The working group was asked to take these points into consideration and re-consider its recommendations with a view to a further discussion at the 23 May meeting. AB; JBrd; JG; JW

The second item on the Vision document was to draft a job description for the secretary. Responsibility had been delegated to the secretary, Rosy Pugh and Mike Young. A draft had been prepared and agreed, but it was recognised this would require amendment in the event of any decision being taken to alter the constitution. The audit weekend had highlighted the need for job-descriptions for committee members. The first element of that plan was for committee members to provide the secretary with descriptions of how they see their roles: most had done so. The next steps were to develop these into a uniform style and format and to devise a mechanism for allocating individual tasks. Mike Young and Rosy Pugh agreed to start work on creating a uniform description. MY; RP
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9. Finance and Planning (contd)

E. Other planning matters
Rosy Pugh said that she and Tony Beadle had been looking at how the newsletter might best be adapted to A5 size (in order to avoid the postage surcharges on larger format envelopes that are to be introduced in August). She outlined the design features and commented that A5 format would give much greater flexibility and provide the possibility of occasional colour. She said that two competitive quotations had been obtained that should ensure the newsletter continued within budget. The meeting approved the action so far – there would be a more detailed report at the May meeting. RP; TB

10. Other matters

None.

………….…………………………….. Chairman P H J Whyman, Secretary.